With help from Eli Okun and Garrett Ross

FIRST IN PLAYBOOK: DeSANTIS VS. NEWSOM — Florida governor and presidential candidate RON DeSANTIS has countered Gov. GAVIN NEWSOM’s proposed rules for their impending Fox News debate with a proposal of his own.

To recap: Newsom has been taunting DeSantis for months, challenging him to a debate on their political and policy philosophies, to be moderated by Fox News’ SEAN HANNITY. Both men have been heralded as the future of their respective parties and have been submitting themselves implicitly as the blueprint (or redprint?) for state executive leadership.

DeSantis finally agreed during a Wednesday appearance on Hannity’s show, but the details of the tete-a-tete still need to be hashed out. Newsom’s team laid out their thinking in a July 28 memo, and now Playbook has exclusively obtained the DeSantis team’s counterproposal that was sent over to Hannity and Fox News yesterday. Read the memo from campaign manager Generra Peck

The similarities … 

  • Both agree on some of the basics: (1) Hannity is the only person who can ask questions; (2) the debate will run 90 minutes; (3) staff can’t brief either governor once they have started; and (4) speaking time is to be equally divided between the two.
  • Hannity has to make sure the “governors do not interrupt each other during their designated time to speak.” (Good luck with that!)
  • Closing statements will be two minutes long and their order will be determined by coin toss.

The differences … 

  • DeSantis proposes no opening remarks; each governor can instead provide a two-minute video “to make the case for their governing philosophy” that would air before the program begins
  • While Newsom proposed a mano-a-mano debate in an empty room, DeSantis wants a live audience, with tickets distributed “50-50.”
  • DeSantis sent two location options (Georgia and Iowa) compared to Newsom’s three (Georgia, Nevada and North Carolina) — i.e., the debate is looking awfully peachy.
  • Only one of the three date options DeSantis suggests lines up with the two Newsom floated: Wednesday, Nov. 8. So go ahead and mark it down — but in pencil, not pen.

TRUMP’S NEW HEADACHE — When former President DONALD TRUMP was arraigned on Jan. 6-related charges Thursday, he swore in front of a federal magistrate that he wouldn’t try to intimidate or influence witnesses or obstruct justice in any way.

Yesterday, on his social media site Truth Social, Trump wrote: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”

The political and legal worlds immediately began speculating whether that rose to the level of obstructing justice. Among those paying attention: special counsel JACK SMITH, whose team wrote in a late-night court filing that the post “either specifically or by implication” was referencing those connected to his latest criminal case.

Notably, Smith’s team is not asking for a gag order — which could bar Trump from speaking in any way about the pending case. Instead, as our colleagues Kyle Cheney and Josh Gerstein write, prosecutors MOLLY GASTON and THOMAS WINDOM are seeking a more limited protective order that would “keep any evidence prosecutors turn over to his defense team from public view.” (Trump is currently under a similar order in the hush-money case underway in New York.)

“All the proposed order seeks to prevent is the improper dissemination or use of discovery materials, including to the public,” Gaston and Windom wrote in their filing. “Such a restriction is particularly important in this case because the defendant has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him.”

Trump’s response: Senior campaign adviser JASON MILLER questioned the assumption that Trump was even referring to the cases against him, claiming in a statement that the Truth post “was in response to the RINO, China-loving, dishonest special interest groups and Super PACs, like the ones funded by the Koch brothers and the Club for No Growth.”

Believe that if you want, but Trump proceeded a few hours later to take the stage at an Alabama GOP dinner and attack Smith as a “lost soul” and “deranged sick person.”

“Any time they file an indictment, we go way up in the polls,” Trump said. “We need one more indictment to close out this election. One more indictment, and this election is closed out. Nobody has even a chance.” More from AP in Montgomery

Related reads: “Trump and allies boost calls for Justice Dept. takeover in new attack on democratic institutions,” by AP’s Nicholas Riccardi … “Trump’s Legal Team Is Enmeshed in a Tangle of Possible Conflicts,” by NYT’s Alan Feuer, Ben Protess and Maggie Haberman … “How Jack Smith Structured the Trump Election Indictment to Reduce Risks,” by NYT’s Charlie Savage

Good Saturday morning. Thanks for reading Playbook. Drop us a line: Rachael Bade, Eugene Daniels, Ryan Lizza.

A NEW OPENING? — As Playbook and many others have exhaustively documented, Trump’s most prominent primary opponents have steered clear from openly and harshly criticizing him on his most obvious vulnerability — his criminal exposure — for fear of pissing off the MAGA base.

Two big stories today tackle whether that’s changing with the latest and most impactful indictment, with both DeSantis and former Vice President MIKE PENCE going further than they have before in arguing that Trump shouldn’t be president again after his attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

NYT’s Lisa Lerer and Nicholas Nehamas write from Iowa after following DeSantis and Pence: “For months, their strategy has been simple: Ignore, deflect and change the subject. But it’s an approach that became significantly harder this week, as the felony counts against Mr. Trump grew to number 78 across three criminal cases with the addition of a federal indictment in a Washington, D.C., federal court accusing him of conspiring to defraud the government and to obstruct an official proceeding, as well as other crimes.”

The most important sentence of the story — and a Rosetta Stone to understanding the entire GOP primary: “Part of the challenge for Mr. Trump’s opponents is that even Republicans who want to move past the former president defend him.”

WaPo’s Amy Wang and Hannah Knowles focus on DeSantis, who “has for months dodged questions about Trump’s efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss. On Friday, however, the Florida governor offered the strongest rejection he has so far of the notion of a stolen election. ‘I’ve said many times: The election is what it is,’ DeSantis said, according to audio from the Iowa campaign event Friday. ‘All those theories that were put out did not prove to be true.’”

Related read: “Anti-Trump Republican candidates say they see donor bumps when they attack him,” by ABC’s Isabella Murray: “A few Republican presidential candidates polling near the middle and back of the primary field say they have found a fundraising sweet spot: Cash flows in when they jab at front-runner Donald Trump, even if their voter support doesn’t jump the same way.”

PHOTO OF THE DAY

9 THINGS THAT STUCK WITH US

1. BLUEGRASS BREAKDOWN: The Kentucky gubernatorial race is the premier contest of 2023, with incumbent Democratic Gov. ANDY BESHEAR fending off a challenge from Republican state AG DANIEL CAMERON. Our elections guru Steve Shepard breaks down the bellwether election and lays out what questions this year’s top-billed battle might help answer:

  • Can Democrats sell an economic message?
  • Can Republicans ride the anti-woke message to victory?
  • How bleak is it for Democrats in rural areas?
  • Is there a general election where the abortion issue helps Republicans?
  • What about the candidates’ political futures?

2. 2024 WATCH: As the nation barrels toward another presidential election year, some voters still can’t shake the lingering feeling from 2020 — and the latest Trump indictment is doing nothing to assuage concerns. WSJ’s Aaron Zitner and Annie Linskey spoke to members of both parties and came away with this how-can-it-still-be-true summation: “Many Republicans refuse to acknowledge Joe Biden’s 2020 victory, saying they have lost faith in the electoral system. They also have doubts that 2024 will deliver a legitimate winner, while Democrats worry that Republicans will contest an outcome that doesn’t go their way.”

By the numbers: “Close to 70% of Republicans believe that President Biden didn’t legitimately win the election, several polls show, despite multiple federal and state investigations, as well as court decisions, finding no evidence of fraud extensive enough to have changed the result.”

3. HOW IT’S PLAYING: “Trump indictment emerges as central GOP concern at Utah special election debate,” by AP’s Sam Metz in Farmington, Utah: “Little daylight emerged between two Republicans vying to replace resigning U.S. Rep. CHRIS STEWART: former Republican National Committeeman BRUCE HOUGH and CELESTE MALOY, a former congressional attorney endorsed by Stewart. But questions from right-leaning audience members in suburban Salt Lake City reflected how Trump — and the legal proceedings against him — continue to be an animating issue for voters.”

Related reads: “‘There’s the traitor!’: Pro-Trump protesters gather outside Mike Pence town hall,” by NBC’s Sarah Dean in Londonderry, N.H. … “GOP candidate Larry Elder: ‘I think Mike Pence made the right decision,’” by the Deseret News’ Samuel Benson

4. RUNNING TO STAND STILL: The push for former Democratic Rep. DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL to challenge Republican incumbent Sen. RICK SCOTT is growing stronger, Gary Fineout reports. “This week, Latino Democrats, including those connected to groups such as BOLD PAC, the campaign arm of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, have become vocal with their support for Mucarsel-Powell. They see her as a compelling candidate in a state in which roughly a quarter of the population is Hispanic.” And while the groups join national Dems such as Senate Majority Leader CHUCK SCHUMER in their effort, Mucarsel-Powell is still weighing whether to get into the race against the powerful and deep-pocketed Scott.

5. THE NAME GAME: “Richard Hanania, Rising Right-Wing Star, Wrote For White Supremacist Sites Under Pseudonym,” by HuffPost’s Christopher Mathias: “RICHARD HANANIA, a visiting scholar at the University of Texas, used the pen name ‘Richard Hoste’ in the early 2010s to write articles where he identified himself as a ‘race realist.’ He expressed support for eugenics and the forced sterilization of ‘low IQ’ people, who he argued were most often Black. He opposed ‘miscegenation’ and ‘race-mixing.’ …

“A decade later, writing under his real name, Hanania has ensconced himself in the national mainstream media, writing op-eds in the country’s biggest papers, bending the ears of some of the world’s wealthiest men and lecturing at prestigious universities, all while keeping his past white supremacist writings under wraps. … Hanania did not respond to multiple requests for comment for this story, made via phone, email and direct messages on social media.”

6. SCOTUS WATCH: “Supreme Court rules against Tulsa in case over Native American man’s speeding ticket,” by CNN’s Ariane de Vogue: “The Supreme Court on Friday denied a request from the city of Tulsa, Oklahoma, to freeze a lower court opinion that could prevent Tulsa from enforcing municipal laws – such as speeding tickets – against Native Americans. Justice BRETT KAVANAUGH and Justice SAMUEL ALITO wrote separately, however, to emphasize that the lawsuit is ongoing and the appeals court involved in the case has not issued a final opinion.”

7. IMMIGRATION FILES: “Over 1,300 migrants cross the border into Arizona daily, despite record heat,” by NBC’s Julia Ainsley and Didi Martinez: “Long considered the most dangerous area to cross the U.S.-Mexico border, the Tucson sector is now also its busiest. On average, more than 1,300 migrants cross daily despite temperatures that regularly top 100 degrees, according to Customs and Border Protection data obtained by NBC News.”

8. BACKSTORY: “How the U.S. Fumbled Niger’s Coup and Gave Russia an Opening,” by WSJ’s Drew Hinshaw, Benoit Faucon and Joe Parkinson: “Nigerien, American, European and other West African security officials, as well as Nigerien soldiers, described a series of unexpected blunders that now threatens to turn West Africa into a theater for regional war. Washington, caught without key personnel in its Africa posts, failed to anticipate what is now the seventh coup in the region since 2020 — not including a failed attempt in Niger two years ago.”

9. ABORTION FALLOUT: “Judge’s order allows Texas women with complicated pregnancies to get abortions,” by The Texas Tribune’s William Melhado

CLICKER — “The nation’s cartoonists on the week in politics,” edited by Matt Wuerker — 15 funnies

GREAT WEEKEND READS, curated by Ryan Lizza:

— “Why many IVF patients worry about the antiabortion movement,” by Julianna Goldman for WaPo

— “The Art of Telling Forbidden Stories in China,” by Han Zhang for NYT Magazine: “Many writers are looking for ways to capture the everyday realities that the government keeps hidden — sometimes at their own peril.”

— “A baby was found in the rubble of a U.S. raid in Afghanistan. But who exactly was killed and why?” by AP’s Riazat Butt, Martha Mendoza, Claire Galofaro and Juliet Linderman: “The high-profile legal battle pits an Afghan family against an American one, and has drawn responses from the White House and the Taliban.”

— “I Saw the Hollowness Inside Andrew Yang’s New Third Party,” by Mary Anna Mancuso for POLITICO Magazine: “The Forward Party is betting that a movement defined by what it is against is far more important than what it stands for.”

— “Dinner Theater and Loathing in Baptist Vegas,” by Eater’s Amy McCarthy: “Branson, Missouri, is touted as a wholesome, family-friendly tourist destination where dinner-and-a-show thrives. But here, everyone’s trying to sell you more than just a ticket.”

— “Putting Trump on the Couch,” by The Atlantic’s Scott Stossel: “A new novel from the psychiatrist famous for Listening to Prozac imagines a Trumplike president’s sessions with a shrink.”

— “Awe Is Good for Your Brain. Here’s How to Find It,” by Outside’s Florence Williams: “Scientists are focusing on the power of awe, and for good reason. Experiencing it is essential for our health. Our author hit the road during California’s superbloom to figure out how our mind and bodies are transformed when we’re blown away by nature.”

— “Africa, the Center of History,” by Adom Getachew for the NY Review of Books: “In Born in Blackness, Howard French works to counteract the ‘symphony of erasure’ that has obscured and denied Africa’s contributions to the contemporary world.”

— “Teen Gamers Swiped $24 Million in Crypto, Then Turned on Each Other,” by Bloomberg’s Margi Murphy and Drake Bennett: “Michael Terpin lost a fortune to a phone ‘SIM swap.’ When he went to war to get it back, he found some surprising allies.”

— “How Does Jake Tapper Find Time to Write So Many Books?” by Esquire’s Michael Sebastian: “The CNN anchor, who just published his sixth book, All The Demons Are Here, walks us through his hectic routine: ‘It probably would be better for my psyche if I were wired differently. But I don’t know how one fixes such a thing.’”

— “On the Tragedy of Hunter Biden,” by Josh Barro on Substack: “His father, our president, is one of the main victims of his abuse.”

TRANSITIONS — Lanny Davis has reestablished his former law firm Lanny J. Davis & Associates. He was a co-founder and partner at Trident DMG and Davis Goldberg & Galper. … Brian Kamoie is now a managing director at Deloitte’s government and public services practice. He previously was the DHS Distinguished Chair of Leadership at the U.S. Naval Academy and is an NSC, FEMA, and HHS alum. … Giovanna Gray Lockhart is now executive director of the Frances Perkins Center. She most recently was senior advisor at Atalanta and is a Kirsten Gillibrand alum.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY: A.G. Sulzberger … Resident Commissioner Jenniffer González-Colón (R-Puerto Rico) … Planned Parenthood’s Alexis McGill Johnson … Chief of Protocol for the U.S. Rufus Gifford … State’s Sharon Weber … POLITICO’s Matt Berg and Meredith Jolivert … Ryan Wrasse of Sen. John Thune’s (R-S.D.) office … Boston Globe’s Jim Puzzanghera … Jeremy Flantzer … Kristofer Eisenla … Cary Gibson of Ascendis Pharma A/S … Cicely Simpson … Molly Donlin of Regent Strategies … Laura Chace of ITS America … Caroline Ehlich … Alicia Amling of Temerity Capital Partners … Nick Raineri … Mark Brunner of Primer.ai … ABC’s Luis Martinez … Michael Chandler … Katie Vlietstra Wonnenberg of Public Private Strategies … Meta’s Monique Dorsainvil … Blake Masters … Pete Snyder … former Rep. Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) (7-0) … former Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval (6-0) … Laura Booth

THE SHOWS (Full Sunday show listings here):

ABC “This Week”: John Lauro … Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.) … North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum. Panel: Donna Brazile, Reince Priebus, Marianna Sotomayor and Julie Pace.

CBS “Face the Nation”: John Lauro … Mike Pence … Bill Barr … Rep. Dean Phillips (D-Minn.) … Will Hurd … Chris Krebs.

CNN “State of the Union”: John Lauro … Mike Pence … Chris Christie. Panel: Kate Bedingfield, Alyssa Farah Griffin, Ashley Allison and Alice Stewart.

FOX “Fox News Sunday”: John Lauro … Rep. Chip Roy (R-Texas). Panel: John Yoo and Andy McCarthy. Panel: Horace Cooper, Doug Heye, Josh Kraushaar, Elizabeth Wydra and Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-Mass.).

NBC “Meet the Press”: John Lauro … Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.). Panel: Peter Baker, Al Cardenas, Hallie Jackson and Kimberly Atkins Stohr.

Send Playbookers tips to [email protected] or text us at 202-556-3307. Playbook couldn’t happen without our editor Mike DeBonis, deputy editor Zack Stanton and producers Setota Hailemariam and Bethany Irvine.

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this newsletter was imprecise in its description of Lanny Davis’s current professional affiliations.